2007年Tim Wendelboe专访(BGT)

　　Tim Wendelboe简介

　　1998～进入Stockfleth's从事全职barista，开始他的咖啡之路，这年19岁。

　　1999～做到Stockfleth's的分店manager，并第一次参加Norwegian Barista Championship得到第五。

　　2000～拿到Norwegian Barista Championship亚军，当年冠军Robert Thoresen也是第一届WBC的冠军。这一年Tea & Coffee Trade Journal杂志曾经介绍了Tim's barista suitcase(所有barista工具装在一个007手提箱里)。

　　2001～终于拿到挪威全国冠军，并在WBC得到第二名。

　　2002～蝉联挪威冠军，也仍然拿到WBC亚军。这一年Tim有本共同著作"Bønner I byn"，谈的是咖啡文化。

　　2003～担任丹麦及挪威的barista大赛评审，并担任Eirik Sand Johnsen的训练师(WBC季军)。代表挪威赢得Norwegian Barista Championship(国际团队比赛)。这年Tim也为了研发Stockfleth's espresso blend，到挪威当地有百年历史的Solberg & Hansen正式参与烘焙、配豆工作。

　　2004～挪威冠军，并于号称WBC史上最激烈的一届赛事内，胜了Sammy Piccolo(Canada)跟Klaus Thomsen(Denmark)，终于一圆金把手之梦。这一年他也开始任职所有Stockfleth's八家店的co manager，负责咖啡品质。

　　2005、2006～赢得World Cup Tasters Championship冠军。正式从Stockfleth's离职。从事教学、顾问，也开始筹画他自己的事业。这年开始barista界的超级四大赛都邀请他担任评审(除了WBC、WCC，还有World Coffee in Good Spirits Championship、World Latte Art Championship)，其他各国的赛事也争相邀请他，他也参与各国选手培训均能挤进WBC前20强，成绩斐然。这二年他也在各重要媒体大量发表文章，分享他的心得。

　　2007～今年28岁，入行第十年。他将带着他训练的挪威冠军Einar Kleppe Holthe赴日本参加WBC。而他自己的烘焙厂、咖啡店、咖啡学校也将在夏天正式开幕。

　　奥斯陆是个小地方，人口不到60万，但却是全球物价最贵的地方，更胜东京。在这样的弹丸之地，不只咖啡业，我想各行各业的压力都很大。当这篇1/2专访登出之后，有些朋友说欧洲数百年的咖啡文化风气就是他们最坚强的后盾，也有些朋友说人口少所以竞争少，分到的饼比较大，更有人说WBC这样的比赛不代表什麽….每个人的解读不同。

　　他习惯替自己订定一个高标准，换句话说，他很难对现有的成就满足，甚至不认为那是成就。他似乎永远知道自己需要什麽，要做甚麽，未来在哪裡，而不是走一步算一步。他很明白自己不是天纵英才，尤其在咖啡这一个接近工艺的产业裡，DNA没办法提供任何帮助，他除了自己要努力，还要多方接触，多谦冲请益，要让眼界更广，才有为自己找到创造未来的可能。

　　不知道各位从Tim的身上看到了什麽?

　　我想我看到的是谦逊的气度，坚定的企图心，天助自助者。

　　Tim Wendelboe:以下简称Tim

　　baristaguildoftaiwan.org:以下简称BGT

　　BGT： What inspired you to be a leader in coffee industry both as a great barista and righ now a consultant with a coffee company?

　　站在这行业最顶尖有什麽感觉?尤其是目前你除了barista现职，也从事顾问的工作。

　　Tim： I have always known that I had to work my way up in society. I have never been a perfect student in school and I have always wanted to start my own business. I think that the reason why I have reached where I am today is because I have worked hard and set high goals for my self. My ambitions have never been to be a leader in the coffee industry, but to be as good as possible at what I do and to enjoy what I do. I take my job seriously and I am also very proud of what I do. I believe anyone can be something in this world if they try hard enough. It is only a matter ambitions.

　　一直以来我都瞭解，我必须努力前进在社会裡力争上游。以前在学校时我就不是个好学生，总是希望能早点开创自己的事业。我认为今天之所以能够走到这一步，因为我够努力，而且我也习惯为自己订一个高标准的目标来追寻。成为咖啡界的领导人物从来就不是我想要的，我只是尽可能地做好这份我所喜爱的工作。我很认真地看待我的工作，同时我也非常自豪这份工作。我认为任何人只要够努力，都可以成就一番事业，关键只是在有没有心而已。

　　BGT： What advice and tips do you have for a Barista who just getting start ?

　　如果让你对所有刚刚开始踏进这行的新人们一些忠告，你有什麽建议?

　　Tim： Be humble about your skills. Read all the literature you can find about coffee and share as much knowledge as you can with other baristas. It is by sharing and exchanging information that I have learned the most about coffee. Always taste the coffee you prepare. Without tasting the product it is impossible to know what you are doing right or wrong.

　　In the end it is the taste that matters. Knowledge is only a tool to find the great taste in coffee.

　　保持一个谦逊的心。所有相关咖啡的文献与资料都值得阅读，并且把你所知的与别的barista来分享，藉着分享心得、交换资讯的方式，都能让我学到最多的咖啡事。经常品嚐检视自己做的咖啡，不然你永远不知道你做对了还是做错。最后我要强调的，最重要的就是去品嚐，所有的知识只是帮你找出咖啡中好味道的工具而已。

　　BGT： You are a World Barista Champion and the World Cup tasters Competition champion, What kind of ability do you think a barista should have? And how to learn?

　　你不但是个世界吧台冠军，也是世界杯测冠军，你认为一个barista最首要具备的能力是什麽?怎麽来训练?

　　Tim： I believe you need the ability to taste and smell. Unfortunately mother nature has not made us all good tasters. I am not a supertaster, but I do have a profound interest in food and drinks in general. This has helped me a lot in understanding what coffee really is all about, the taste. I also have a very humble approach when I taste coffee and other new things. It is by tasting a lot of coffee, food, cigars, and wine that I have gained experience both as a barista and a cup taster.

　　我相信，最重要的是味觉与嗅觉的基本功。遗憾的是大多数人都不是天生的杯测师，我也不是个超级杯测人，但是我对所有一般性的食物或饮料都有深刻浓厚的兴趣，这些帮助我可以瞭解很多咖啡的味道。我也保持一贯谦逊的态度来杯测咖啡，甚至其他的新事物。藉着品嚐大量不同的咖啡、料理、雪茄和酒，从中获得品嚐的经验，都有助于我barista与杯测者的工作。

　　BGT： What is the most common mistake of barista when they making espresso at coffee bars?

　　你觉得在咖啡店裡，barista最常犯的错误是什麽?

　　Tim： They do not focus on all the factors that affects the brewing process. By this I mean things like, cleanliness, tamping, grinding adjustment, flushing the machine, etc, etc. Many baristas have a routine, but they rarely question their routine. This means that small details often are missed in the brewing process. By missing only one important detail the espresso can turn out to taste horrible. It is really hard to focus on quality when the line is getting longer on the other side of the counter, but if not every customer are treated as good as you would like to be treated yourself, then I do believe you are making a mistake.

　　通病是不够专注，这包括冲煮过程中所有足以产生影响的元素，像是清洁、填压、研磨调整、放水….等等。绝大多数的 barista有一套操作程序，但是却很少对这个惯常的程序做检讨，这意味着在冲煮过程中会有些小细节经常被忽略，而偏偏一个小失误就能让 espresso变得难以下咽。我也知道全程的专注是真的不容易的事情，尤其是柜台的另一边等待的客人越来越多的时候，但是只要你没有对待客人没有像对待你自己那麽讲究的时候，我相信这时候错误立刻就要出现了。

　　BGT： Right now you create a roast factory do you think a good barista should know how to roast coffee? Or even to practice roasting? And what is your suggestion of barista to cooperate with roaster?

　　我们知道你现在正在筹备所谓的自烘店，你认为一个好的barista应该去瞭解烘焙吗?甚至是去学习烘焙工作?你觉得barista跟roaster之间如何配合?

　　Tim： I definitely believe that all baristas should have knowledge about roasting and how roasting affects the taste of the coffee. You can have one coffee and roast it in many different ways and get different results in the cup. I believe that all baristas should try to open a dialogue with a roaster and try to get at least the roasting date on the bags they buy along with other vital information. I also believe that roasters and baristas should taste more coffee together. This way the barista can help the roaster get better by giving feedback and the roaster will help the barista gain more knowledge. It is a win-win situation for all of us.

　　我绝对相信所有的barista都应该具备烘焙知识，去瞭解烘焙如何对咖啡风味造成了影响，相同的咖啡会因为不同的烘焙方式，而造成不同的口感结果。我认为所有barista要尝试着与烘焙师对话并交换意见，最起码知道袋子上烘焙日期的意义以及其他伴随的重要资讯。我也觉得烘焙师跟barista必须一起同时杯测各种咖啡，藉由这样意见回馈的方式，让烘焙者更精准掌握冲煮需求，也让barista 自己瞭解更多烘焙相关知识，这绝对是一个创造双赢的方式，对大家都好。

　　BGT： Do you think Barista is just as a career， or barista maybe just a passing job?

　　你觉得barista该是个终身职志，抑或是一个骑驴找马的过渡工作?

　　Tim： I am the living proof that it can definitely be a career. I started as a full time barista and worked my way up to become manager of 8 coffee shops before I quit my job at Stockfleth’s. Now I am opening a coffee school, a roastery and an espresso bar in Oslo. I believe it is always up to every person what they make of their job. But don’t believe everything will happen for you if you do a good job. Responsibility is never given to a person, it is taken by the person. So my advice to all is to take responsibility of your own future.

　　我就是一个活生生的例子，这绝对会是一份能当作终身职志的工作。我在Stockfleth’s从一个全职吧台努力做起，在离职前，我已经负责八家咖啡店的经理事务。我目前正在奥斯陆筹办一所咖啡学校、一间烘焙厂和一家咖啡店。我相信每个人可以决定他的工作应该是什麽样子，但是千万别以为你做了好事，幸福会自动来敲门。责任不会落在人身上，而是靠人自揽，所以我相信，所有人都应该主动为他的未来负责任。

　　BGT： If have the chance do you want to visit Taiwan and expand your business ?

　　如果有机会你会访问台湾吗，甚至拓展你的事业?

　　Tim： I definitely would like to visit Taiwan. Right now my schedule is really tight because of my new establishment. But if a good opportunity comes around, I would not hesitate to jump on a plane and fly to Taiwan. Asian culture is something I need to explore more. Especially when it comes to food and drinks.

　　我当然希望有天去台湾看看，但是因为新公司的成立，我的行程已经排得满满的了。但是只要有好机会，我将毫不犹豫地跳上飞机来台湾，亚洲文化是我必须去探究更多的，尤其是涉及到饮食的部分。

　　BGT：Please describle the signature drink that you won 1st place in the World Barista Championship in 2004, and how long did it take you to create the sig drink?

　　谈谈你在04年拿下冠军的创意饮料。花了多久时间来构思与创作?

　　Tim： The drink is based on one of my favourite desserts, Tiramisu. I had to make it into a liquid drink because of the rules in the WBC. This was the fun part. I spent over 6 months trying to balance the different ingredients until the drink was perfect. It consisted of a whisked topping made out of marsala syrup, mascarpone cheese, egg yolks and sugar. The coffee I used played a vital role in the drinks taste balance. I managed to find coffee from Mountain Top estate in Australia. This coffee had just the right fruitiness, chocolate aftertaste and loads of sweetness. Fortunately I found this coffee only weeks before the actual championship. On top I drissled orange scented chocolate from Valrhona. All togeather a delicious drink where the coffee flavour was the dominating aftertaste and the topping contributed with a creamy and airy mouthfeel.

　　创意的源头来自于我最喜欢的甜点之一～提拉米苏。因为WBC的规则限制，我必须把它转变成一种饮料，从固体到液体，正是整个创意过程中最有意思的部份。一共花了我超过六个月的时间，让所有的原料做一个完美的组成，包括marsala糖浆、mascarpone起司、蛋黄和糖，而我所选用的咖啡在整杯饮料的味觉平衡裡，更是扮演一个最关键的角色。我选择澳洲Mountain Top庄园的咖啡，它有我要的水果风味、巧克力馀韵，也提供丰富的甜度。幸运的是我终于在正式比赛前几星期取得了这个咖啡。我在最上面还洒了少量的来自法国的法芙娜橙香巧克力。最后，有着绝佳咖啡风味当做背景主体，并结合上层滑顺的乳脂与发泡后的轻盈质感，我的创意饮料就这麽诞生了。

　　BGT： Many coffee people think about that the Scandiavian espresso blend almost with the highest reputation in the world , what do you think? And how did you creat a good espresso blend?

　　斯堪地那维亚几乎已是全球咖啡人公认espresso最高水平的地区，你个人怎样看待这件事?而你对espresso配方的设计概念是如何?

　　Tim： Scandinavians has a long tradition in buying quality coffee. This has many reasons, but I believe that a good espresso blend always starts with finding coffee that is exceptionally good alone. By mixing good coffees together, you can create something more that what the coffees taste alone. To get the right taste balance between the different coffees used and the degree of roast is very time demanding and hard work and you have to taste a lot of coffee to reach your goal. But you need a vision of what you want that goal to be. Without having a vision or a goal for the final taste, you don’t know what to look for in the single coffees either and you will end up with being more confused than satisfied.

　　购买优质的咖啡已经变成是长久以来北欧人的传统了，这有许多因素，但我认为一个好的espresso配方，本来就是从寻找单品咖啡独特风味开始的。藉由溷合各种好咖啡，你可以创造出更多的单品豆所没有的风味。要在各式各样不同的咖啡，与烘焙度的配对组合下，找出一个正确的口感平衡点，是一件非常吃力又困难的工作，你必须经过大量的杯测过程来达到这个目标。你更需要一个敏锐的洞察力来帮助你完成组织最后你需要的配方风味，不然你会根本不知道怎麽选择单品豆进来配方裡，徒增困惑而已。

　　BGT：What kind of single overriding flavour in the espresso is the worst? And what kind of flavour is your priority choice?

　　那一种味道出现在espresso裡是最糟糕的?而哪一种味道又是你个人的优先选择?

　　Tim： The worst flavours for me would be if the espresso is stale and has a charcoal or burned flavour. I do not like overroasted espresso, nor too light so it tastes like lemon juice. I also dislike ferment, mustiness and all other defective flavours. I believe in a good balance between sweetness, bitterness and acidity and mouthfeel. Sweetness is always the taste I try to enhance the most. But without bitterness the coffee is not interesting. I prefer many styles of espresso. Right now my blend has a strong aroma of almonds and marzipan. The taste of the espresso reminds me of dried fruits. The aftertaste is very longlasting, oily and has the flavour of bittersweet chocolate. I like fruity espresso and also chocolaty espresso, but taste is individual and there is no correct answer to what an espresso should taste like. If it pleases you and stands out from other espressos, then you have probably tasted a good one, right?

　　对我而言，最糟糕的espresso莫过于出现不新鲜的味道，或是碳味或焦味。我不喜欢过度烘焙的espresso豆，也不喜欢太浅焙，喝起来像是柠檬汁的espresso。我当然也不喜欢发酵味、霉味和所有的缺陷风味。我坚信在甜味、苦味、酸味与口腔触感之间，会有一个绝妙的平衡。甜味绝对是我要提升到极限的味道，但是少了一点苦味，咖啡又不够有趣了。我喜欢各种风格的 espresso。目前我正在做的配方豆闻起来有非常浓烈的杏仁香气(marzipan是欧洲人耶诞节常做的杏仁糖饼，被认为象徵幸福的味道)，做成 espresso则有种让我联想到水果乾的味道，而后味是油脂感跟巧克力般的苦甜味的组合表现，馀韵绵长。我个人喜欢水果风格的espresso，也喜欢巧克力风格的espresso，但感官总是个人主观的，espresso的风格走向是没有标准答案的。如果你觉得喝到这杯咖啡比别的好，那就是好咖啡了，不是吗?

　　BGT：Which one is your favorite single origin coffee? Did you use it as one of your espresso blend?

　　你最喜欢甚麽单品咖啡?你会用这支豆子进配方吗?

　　Tim： My all time favourite is Kenyan coffee. I love the lively black currant flavour and the citric acidity it often represents. I have always had a good amount of Kenyan coffee in my espressoblends. Right now I am using 10% of a Kenyan coffee from Eeagads estate. It is an amazing coffee. I do also often find coffees that are exceptionally good and that might be my favourite at the time. Right now it is a Rwandan coffee from Bukonya estate. I also use 10% of this coffee in my blend. This coffee is super sweet with a lot of coffee blossom aroma and a delightful sweet ripe frutiness.

　　肯亚咖啡始终是我的最爱，我喜欢它所呈现的黑醋栗风味和柠檬酸质，我也经常在espresso配方裡有效地运用这支豆子。目前我做好的配方裡就用了10%的肯亚Eeagads庄园豆，这可是一支令人惊叹的好咖啡。我也经常寻找其他具有独特风味的咖啡，在当下它可能也是我的最爱。比如我目前也用了10%的卢安达Bukonya庄园豆在我新配方中，它拥有超级的甜度表现，和大量的咖啡花香，加上令人愉悦的水果熟甜风味。

　　BGT：What's your opinion of ristretto, for example, in Taiwan ,some barista like to make espresso with high volume (over 20gram or use triple basket), long extraction time and light roasted blend(before Second crack)?

　　你对ristretto的看法如何?比如在台湾有些barista喜欢用超过20g的高剂量，更长的萃取时间，加上未至二爆的浅焙配方。

　　Tim： It depends on the coffee and the occation. I have had some great shots made by Paul Bassett where he used this method, but I personally prefer a lighter texture and a longer shot when I use my own blend. I have to pinpoint that every coffee needs different brewing parameters in order to taste at its best. Therefore there is no method that are more or less right or wrong. The taste is what matters, but taste is individual, and that is why working with coffee is so much fun.(and frustrating at some times)

　　我想这取决于咖啡本身与使用的场合。我喝过一些非常棒的espresso是Paul Bassett用这种手法做出来的，但是我个人还是喜欢比较淡一点的，萃取量多一点的方式来呈现我自己的配方。我确定的是每一种咖啡需要不同的冲煮参数，才能喝到它最好的那一面，因此没有一个方法是比较好或是比较差。也因为品嚐是这麽主观的事情，所以从事这一行才会这麽有趣，当然有时也令人沮丧。

　　BGT： what's your opinion about Italy certifies the "official" cappuccino" and what is your idea of the volume and stracture of a cappa .

　　有关最近所谓的义大利官方认证的卡布其诺型态，你的看法如何?你又怎麽看待卡布的量与结构?

　　Tim： I believe it is important to state what a cappuccino really is. Serving a 32 oz milk based coffeedrink in a paper cup and to call it a cappuccino is wrong and disrespectful to Italian culture. I don’t mind people drinking such a thing, but I believe it is wrong to compare it to a cappuccino. I believe we need to educate the people about quality coffee. This is hard to do when most of the espresso drinks served around the world is 99,9% milk and 0,1% coffee.

　　我觉得去界定卡布其诺到底该是怎样的东西，这点是很重要的。一份32oz的加奶饮料装在外带纸杯裡，如果说它是卡布其诺，不但是个错误，也是对义大利文化的不敬。我不在意人们喝这样的东西，但是不该拿来跟卡布其诺相提并论。我相信我们需要教育人们有关优质咖啡的知识，当然推广这并不容易，目前全世界的市场上加奶饮料仍然是压倒性的悬殊比例。

　　BGT： Do you believe milk-based espresso drinks need a different (and possibly more forceful) blend than straight espresso or ristretto drinks do? How many blend will you serve in your espresso bar?

　　你觉得加奶饮品需要另外不同的配方，来跟纯饮espresso或ristretto做区隔吗?你会在自己店裡提供几种配方?

　　Tim： Yes, my new blend is not dominating enough in a cappuccino. Therefore I need to make another one that will taste more coffee in milk based drinks. I will have 2 standard blends in my espresso bar and also various single origin espresso to offer.

　　我认为是有必要的，目前我的新配方并没有足够的支配力在卡布其诺的表现上，因此我需要研发另一个配方，来让加奶饮品上能更凸显咖啡本身的味道。我将在店裡使用二种标准配方，并有各种单品espresso的供应。